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Health & safety with heavy kit [Archive] - Event Photographer Society Forum

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john christopher
09-12-2010, 11:32 AM
I'm going to make this official here and now, I don't like the recent trend of overly heavy Dye Sub 9x6 printers (the 20Kg+ ones), that will put you in hospital faster than a Glasgow handshake if not handled very carefully (especially in these icy conditions). Heavy 12x8 printers are a different matter as they tend to stay in the office or be used in a static situation, such as a mobile photo kiosk. 9x6 printers (which are the mainstay of our industry) are manually handled in the main and so present a different level of risk. I take the health and safety of our members seriously and I think the impact that these printers can have on the health of their owner/operator is something that should be given some serious consideration by both our members as well as the wider industry. Let me be clear on this. IMHO a printer can be either be heavy (in weight) but small (in dimensions) or light (in weight) but large (in dimensions) but what a 9x6 printer cannot be is the worse of both worlds, heavy and large. When a 9x6 printer reaches the weight and dimensions of a 12x8 printer then questions really need to be asked. A quick reference here http://www.eventphotographersociety.co. ... raphy.html (http://www.eventphotographersociety.co.uk/Printers_for_Event_Photography.html)" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; will confirm what I'm talking about. Not all printers are equal in this matter of mass over weight. I've recently moved over to the DNP printers for this very reason and I know I'm not alone in making this kind of move. The dawn of other printers like the CP-D70 DW will I trust mean that lighter printers are taken up by many more on this forum and I for one think that this is no bad thing....

John Christopher

simon coates
09-12-2010, 11:39 AM
John

The weight of the printer is only a problem if you don't handle it correctly. A criticism that can be applied to a great deal of the kit we use.

I solved the problem neatly by having a wheeled flight case built to house the 9810 and the 3800 in a stack. It has a built-in USB hub and I can put my iMac on top of the stack if desk space is at a premium.

To some users even the DNP printers are too heavy to be carried any distance and I would always advocate using a sack-barrow when conditions allow. I recently bought a rather neat folding truck from Costco (other suppliers no doubt exist.)

I will certainly not be changing my printers just because a lighter model has been introduced.


Simon

john christopher
09-12-2010, 12:10 PM
Even a "lightwieght" DNP can (and will) put you in traction if NOT handled correctly, it's just that the others cross the line for me because it does not need to be that way in the first place.

There is also one other thing that concerns me. Of late I've witnessed various event togs and their staff tossing around fully laden printers with gay abandon, apparently with no concern for their own welling. For the most part I've kept my mouth shut and said nothing. Alas this is dangerous macho claptrap on both of our parts. I tried to make a joke of it in the past now I'm breaking my silence. All of us have to stop competing in this testosterone fuelled pissing contest and grow up. It's either that or face the consequence of our own stupid actions.

Steph

Drew Hadwin
09-12-2010, 12:27 PM
If you go on any Health and Safety course, they will tell you that Health and Safety is everyone's responsibility.

It is then down to the person(s) in charge of the job, to ensure that Health and Safety is followed to the correct guidelines. This would include the use of Risk Assessments and appropriate training of staff, to ensure that they are not injured.

For example, if you had a new member of staff, and had given them no Manual Handling training, said to them 'grab that printer and load it in the van' and they hurt themselves in doing so, it would be your liability. If the movement of equipment can be aided with other equipment, this should always be used, even if the loading / unloading takes longer.

Your no good to any one if you put your back out and can't move.

But with all that in mind, we need to remember that the manufactures of the printers design them to be placed in one location, and not moved around all the time.

ian griffiths
09-12-2010, 12:39 PM
John,

I know we've had a joke about this in the past, in fact as you know it's how you earned your new name of "Steph" but to take it on to a crusade is a bit daft in my opinion.

Weight is relative to the person lifting it so me find a 1D with a 70-200 on it too heavy others don't have any problem.

I'm not saying that H&S should be ignored, it has it's place in any and all organisations but it never prevents any task being completed providing the legalities (Manual Handling Act) are observed and this will fall in to your general Policies and procedures as Jeremy said if it's heavy put it in a flight case (adding to the weight) or use appropriate trollies.

I am no strong man and I have criticised Mitsubishi in the past with regard to the size of the 8000 & 9000 range when compared to the 700 & 800's that came before them, now with the new range we are back to that size, don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that I played any part in the development of the new range!

Let's just use common sense, if something feels too heavy for you use the appropriate tools to move it, there really is no need for anyone to injure themselves.

Oh, before anyone shouts, yes I am sponsored by Mitsubishi, not that after all these years this should come as a suprise to anyone.

Mark Amies
09-12-2010, 01:20 PM
John, another thing, as mentioned by Simon- flight cases exist for the ease of movement.

Tony New
09-12-2010, 01:35 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, health and safety is about common sense.

The Health and Safety at Work Act etc exists so that those who choose not to meet their responsibilities can be compelled to by law - or face the consequences. The Act is an enabling act under which there are dozens of pieces of legislation, the Manual Handling Regulations being but one. If your risk assessments are 'suitable and sufficient' and your control measures extend 'as far as is reasonably practicable' then you will almost certainly be meeting your responsibilities.

Using this printer as an example, knowing it is heavy and presents possible risk of injury through repeated handling, it's reasonable to expect the employer to provide some means to reduce the risk. If used 2 or three times a week then a purpose built wheeled flightcase would be reasonable or better still replace it with a lighter model - if one exists. If it were only used once in a blue moon then the cost of a purpose built flightcase is unreasonable and suitable labeling as to HEAVY and 2 PERSON LIFT would be reasonable.

Like I said at the beginning it's all about common sense.

Of course, if heaven forbid you end up in court facing a judge, the first thing they may well ask to see is the risk assessment you completed prior to purchase to ensure the printer was fit for purpose!!!

chris nutt
09-12-2010, 02:14 PM
As each year goes by the printer seems heavier. For owner / operators like ourselves the weight is our own problem (and risk) - but if you have employees, well that's a different matter. Where there's blame - there's a claim....

Mark Amies
09-12-2010, 02:18 PM
Chris

Without boring anyone here, Mitsubishi have given the issues some thought , and that is why they have got a new lighter printer, and so very much in line with the path that DNP followed with the DS40.

john christopher
09-12-2010, 02:26 PM
Same weight (fully laden) yes, same dimensions.....I fear not! Sack trollies, Hand trollies/carts all have their place in the Event Photographers kitbag for safely moving hardware around from a2b. But lets first loose the attitude that safety doesn't matter because it does. It's good news that both Fuji and Mitsubishi are coming out with new lighter more compact dye sub printers. Alas printers such as the 9810 and the unwieldy HiTi P510S (yes I know it's only 13.00 KGS) really do fill me with dread.

Steph

Pale Dude.....Here, here!

Mark Amies
09-12-2010, 02:46 PM
John, we do need to get a sense of perspective, thiis not news, how long have you guys been using this kit for?

The fact that the printers are heavy is a known quantity - but it is the kit you use, and therefore something that needs to be written in to the equation.

The only other solution is not using a printer.

john christopher
09-12-2010, 03:50 PM
Mark

You must bear in mind not everyone reading this post and visiting this forum will be seasoned event photography professionals. Some like me, will be green as grass! Anyway I think I've made my point. Nuff said!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Steph

Mike Weeks
17-12-2010, 07:33 PM
I have had to heavily moderate this thread but hopefully I have retained the original sentiment.

Mike

john christopher
20-12-2010, 12:01 PM
Sharon has suggested that some of our members may benefit from a workshop in copytasting and subbing. Otherwise I'm a happy chappy.....


Steph

john christopher
21-12-2010, 11:20 AM
To some users even the DNP printers are too heavy to be carried any distance and I would always advocate using a sack-barrow when conditions allow. I recently bought a rather neat folding truck from Costco (other suppliers no doubt exist.)

Simon

Simon

I had my folding truck (brought from Aldi) stolen by some lowlife while covering a graduation ball at the Grosvenor House two years ago. Used together with cargo straps, I found this method of moving gear around to be really safe and secure for both me and my equipment. Alas it did take up a fair bit of space in the car........

Steph

Walter James
21-12-2010, 08:39 PM
On Sunday while doing a job In Bradford, I had to carry my kit upstairs to where the event was at the Venue...

Snow and Ice every where, I was vary careful in bringing my kit in until I started to walk up stairs and it could only happen to me...

I missed the last step while carrying my kodak 605 and I fell dropping my printer as the cover came off and the paper and spool went rolling away from the printer.

People came to help me and to pick up my pride and joy, my 605 which is a lot lighter than my 6800 and 6850.

THE EMBARRISSMENT AND THE PAIN IN MY KNEE...

HEALTH AND SAFTY IS A MUST FOR EVERY ONE...

I only got the printer back a week ago from being repaired and know it has to go back to kodak...

john christopher
21-12-2010, 11:38 PM
Walter

.......And I thought I had bad luck!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EASY-LOAD-STAIR-C ... 53df63e858 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EASY-LOAD-STAIR-CLIMBING-TROLLEY-SACK-TRUCK-204850-/360230152280?pt=UK_BOI_Office_Equipment_Supplies_O ffice_Equipment_ET&hash=item53df63e858)

Yes, I know it's 200 but consider it a long term investment in retaining your sanity.

Happy Xmas

Steph

Walter James
21-12-2010, 11:54 PM
Bad luck is my middle name as ell as Aka Hard Ears Walter...

Thanks for the link old boy, its amazing how much kit I have already, especially when we have big events....

Mark Ratcliffe
05-01-2011, 06:37 PM
a more realistic priced 3 wheeler
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/csl2-industrial-stair-climber
a wood base 3/4 ply bolted on to give a little more base area,if you think that you may need it
sorted

Mark Ratcliffe
05-01-2011, 06:48 PM
a more realistic priced 3 wheeler
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/csl2-industrial-stair-climber
a wood base 3/4 ply bolted on to give a little more base area,if you think that you may need it
sorted
i also use these,put onto them by Graham,digital images
small one fits perfect for mitsi printers
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/range/guid/EE4517B9-0807-4DC9-A665-3024CFCF808B
good quality,sturdy ,look professional when you turn up with your gear
stick my camera gear in one of these
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/search/filter/photograph+case/type/any/page/1
they do one with full foam interior,not just the dividers
get printer out,turn box on its end put printer on to this perfect table working height
i believe that machine mart are discontinuing the boxs
to make it easier to lift out of case,i use a lap top belt that fits around the front end of the printer,so you use the handle at rear and the laptop belt at front,those of you that have a mitsi printer will know what i mean.No need to bend down,all the gubbings fit around the printer when its in the case,print catcher,usbs.power cable and enough space for all your mouse mats,mice etc..a full size keyboard also fits in the lid
admittedly you cant run the printer in the box but for only 52 Bargain,i think graham also carrys his 3 screens in one of the larger boxes