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Outside events - generator help. [Archive] - Event Photographer Society Forum

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Damon Robinson
26-10-2010, 01:49 PM
Hi,

i haven't worked outside (read printing onsite outside) before and have a job to do.

i have no experience with generators.

Looking for some advice from those that do with regard to what kind of generator I need. I'll just hire something for this event as it's not what I would usually do. No idea what I need or extra equipment to go with it's use if any.

i will need to power;

Printer
3 x laptops
2 x monitors
1 x switch
1 x router
maybe need an extra socket or two for possible use on chargers.

Any and all help is appreciated to do with the equipment and pitfalls of such events.

Many thanks

Damon

Dave Derrett
26-10-2010, 02:41 PM
If it helps, I use a Honda EU10i - brilliant. Powers 2 printers,laptop,monitor,etc. Only rated at 1kw but copes fine. Also available Honda EU20i (2kw) Would advise you use an inverter type generator as very stable supply - not a 'building site' type. Also put a surge protector in just in case.....

Damon Robinson
26-10-2010, 02:46 PM
Thanks for the reply Dave,

Are they described as 'inverter' in their details? Not sure of the difference. Is the surge protector something i can hire along with it or is it just like the mains multi plug surge protection thingy i already use?

Cheers

Damon

Dave Derrett
26-10-2010, 02:49 PM
Thanks for the reply Dave,

Are they described as 'inverter' in their details? Not sure of the difference. Is the surge protector something i can hire along with it or is it just like the mains multi plug surge protection thingy i already use?

Cheers

Damon
The i means inverter. I just use yer average mains surge protector block with ten sockets for all the kit. Get em anywhere....

Jeremy Nako
26-10-2010, 02:51 PM
I use the Honda Eu20i. It's the Rolls Royce of generators.

You don't need any further form of protection if you hire one of these - it has a cleaner sine wave than domestic electricity.

Did you forget the printers from your list ?

If you're buying then look at getting an LPG conversion as there are many benefits to this, and an increasing number of local authorities are banning petrol generators, especially the non suitcase variety.

Damon Robinson
26-10-2010, 02:52 PM
Ahh, i have a few of the surge protectors then, wasn't sure if it was something special for that use or not.

Thanks again.

Dave Derrett
26-10-2010, 02:55 PM
I use the Honda Eu20i. It's the Rolls Royce of generators.

You don't need any further form of protection if you hire one of these - it has a cleaner sine wave than domestic electricity.

Did you forget the printers from your list ?

If you're buying then look at getting an LPG conversion as there are many benefits to this, and an increasing number of local authorities are banning petrol generators, especially the non suitcase variety.

Jeremy - maybe it's just me being uber careful... use them at home as well..

Jeremy Nako
26-10-2010, 03:03 PM
use them at home as well..

lol.. you're more likely to need them at home than with this generator.

No harm in being over cautious.

For info, at larger outdoor events we run the following:

1 x rack server
1 x rack nComputing server
2 x 9810 printers
1 x 3800 printer
1 x Evolis card printer
2 x laptop sales stations
2 x mirrored monitors
1 x router
10 x VS monitors
1 x 44" information monitor

It all runs very happily from the 2KW genny, which never struggles or even gets close to capacity.

Damon Robinson
26-10-2010, 03:09 PM
Thats some kit right there Jeremy.

I did list a printer at the top of my list, i run with just the one 9800.

i wasn't sure just what you could power safely from a generator, it seem you can do plenty. :shock:

I may well look into buying one but for just this one i think hiring will suit me more.

Thanks for the help guys.

Damon

Michael Martin
26-10-2010, 03:57 PM
Interesting to see how much kit Jeremy is running of a 2KW Genny. I use a Honda 2KW inverter and you can hear the tone change when the printer prints. I am using the older 9550DW and this is the first piece of kit I have to switch on as the power surge when switching it on has shut everything else down before now. Otherwise it is brill and will run for 8 hours or more on a single tank of petrol.

Jeremy Nako
26-10-2010, 04:12 PM
Most of the kit is in a large flightcase which is pre wired, so when I plug it in I get everything coming on at the same time.

I have a meter that notes the max power pull, and from memory 2 x 9810, 1 x 3800, router, 2 screens and 2 lappies don't draw more than 1.3kw at start up.

In response to a similar request I did actually publish all the figures on a thread here some time ago.

I do however switch the genny to full power on start up rather than letting it adjust itself. Thereafter I return it to 'as and when' mode.

jonathan cleaver
26-10-2010, 07:39 PM
Another vote for the Honda.

Ian McGirr
26-10-2010, 09:21 PM
I've noticed that there is a lack of mention for a UPS (uninterrupted power supply. I think ?) in these posts. Something I would never be without when running a genny.
I realise Damon that you are using laptops, so you have battery back up if the generator goes down / runs out of petrol etc, but something I would still recommend.
They only cost £40-£60 and give you half an hour or so to sort out any problems with the genny (or shut down the systems and save everything).
You could also use this at home in case of power failure and keep the PC runnning until you save and shut down.
Mine has 8 sockets, 4 battery back up + power surge and 4 just power surge.
Also check out the type of socket output from the genny. Nothing worse than getting onsite only to realise you don't have the correct plugs for the sockets.
Sorry if that's telling you how to suck eggs
(PS. does anyone actually know how to suck eggs and what's the point of it, my granny never did tell me !!! :?: :roll: )

Jeremy Nako
27-10-2010, 07:19 AM
They only cost £40-£60 and give you half an hour or so to sort out any problems with the genny (or shut down the systems and save everything).

Ian to get 1/2 hour of power even on a single PC you're looking at a very sizeable UPS.

I'm always happy to bow to greater knowledge, but my recollection is that the Belkin style multi socket UPS will give you at best 3-5 mins. A 1,000VA UPS will keep an 'average' desktop PC running for 15 mins.

It does of course depend entirely on the pull of what you have connected.

They're also very, very heavy !

I'm not saying that they're not a good idea, but like everything they have advantages and disadvantages.

Ian McGirr
27-10-2010, 07:58 AM
They're also very, very heavy !

Yeah, don't I know it !
Every time I pack or lug the UPS, I always think "Are you sure you really need this ???"
My genny's never let me down yet and never really used it in anger.
The once I did, it ran 2 mac's for 5-10 mins (admittedly, with very little running on them) while we tried to sort it out. Ironically it ended up that the UPS was not plugged in :roll: :roll: , so was running totally off it's own battery.
It also beeps at you and the closer the beeps become, the less power is available.
The sales bumf that comes with it says it will 'run UP TO half hour' depending on the load.
(Probably with a 10W energy saving bulb connected)

ian griffiths
27-10-2010, 08:58 AM
We use the "Building site" (SE2700) type generators fitted with Honda engines, the later ones are now all LPG, cost is £499.00 including the LPG conversion or £320.00 for petrol from Stephill Generators.

Had the first one for over 7 years with just an annual service and oil change. Sold it to the other Ian 3 years ago and he is still using it without fault.

These are 2.7kva (3.2kva Max) and run for up to 6 x 8 hours days on one 13kg bottle costing around £16.00 to refill, £2'ish per day. (Obviously depends upon load)

The biggest set up I've run on one is 8 laptops, 8 monitors, 8 x 9550's, 2 x 3800's, 1 x server, ink-jet proof printer, 2 x credit card machines, a few lights, battery chargers. Didn't bother with the mug press, at 480w I thought that would be pushing my luck!

Ian McGirr
27-10-2010, 10:08 PM
Sold it to the other Ian 3 years ago and he is still using it without fault.
Searched the garage, the attic, the back of the car, even phoned the guy who rents me the van. Nope. No wonder it's been without fault.
T'weren't me
:D

ian griffiths
28-10-2010, 08:55 AM
Ian,

It's a bit like "The other white meat" there's more than one!

The 'Other Ian' has been around event photography a bit longer than you! He is Ian Cann (MRC Photo) my right-hand man, the only guy I trust with the phones, emails and diary when I'm away or want a bit of time off.

petergettins
28-10-2010, 07:18 PM
Perfect timing on this thread as I'm in the same boat looking at generators. The cost of the Honda is putting me off for the amont I'd use it, has anyone heard of the following: Clarke IG1000

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... -010618050 (http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/clarke-1kw-inverter-generator-ig1000?da=1&TC=RV-010618050)" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's the 1KW rating & inverted & all I'd be looking to run would be 1 laptop, 2 monitors & 1 Mitsi 9800 printer

(sorry if I'm hijacking this thread), but even to the OP this is another one to choose from

thanks

Pete

Mike Weeks
28-10-2010, 07:33 PM
Pete,

personally I would go for the 2KW version and have the reserve of power.

Mike

ian griffiths
28-10-2010, 08:19 PM
When I started researching the whole generator issue 12 years ago I decided the best place for advice was the hire shops and after visiting 3 they had all convinced me, the advice was simple, "If it ain't got a Honda engine leave it alone".

So I took their advice and using the SE2700 most weekends for 7 years it never let me down, I only sold it when I went LPG and Ian still uses it at his main genny. At £320 for petrol or £499 for LPG you can't go wrong.

petergettins
28-10-2010, 08:41 PM
Pete,

personally I would go for the 2KW version and have the reserve of power.

Mike

Thanks Mike, that makes sense.


When I started researching the whole generator issue 12 years ago I decided the best place for advice was the hire shops and after visiting 3 they had all convinced me, the advice was simple, "If it ain't got a Honda engine leave it alone".

So I took their advice and using the SE2700 most weekends for 7 years it never let me down, I only sold it when I went LPG and Ian still uses it at his main genny. At £320 for petrol or £499 for LPG you can't go wrong.

And likewise thanks Ian, again thatís good advice. Looking at that one on a few sites, it doesnít say itís inverted, but has a low waveform distortion characteristic, which sounds like something from ďThe Big Bang Theory.Ē
I'm guessing it means the same kind of thing, & as you've run plenty of computer equipment on it, I would guess you'd agree?

Cheers

Pete

brin edwards
29-10-2010, 04:39 AM
AND

Check if it can be converted to LPG, there is a company on ebay that supplies LPG conversion kits, give them a ring.

You could be quite hacked off if in 12 months time you needed LPG to do a job

philhynds
29-10-2010, 08:53 AM
I'm selling this on Ebay if anybody's interested. Bidding was up to 99p last time I checked.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :MESELX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130448031054&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT)

Jeremy Nako
29-10-2010, 08:59 AM
Should we be calling you Karen from now on Phil..? :lol:

Mike Weeks
29-10-2010, 09:10 AM
I have looked at the specs of the generator that Ian recommends and whilst I have used similar succesfully it does not guarantee the quality of power i.e. it is not a pure sine wave so my advice is caveat emptor, if however you then have something like a UPS inline this could improve this.

From an engineering view I can say that generators such as the Honda suitcase EU20i meet the requirements of running sensitive equipment.

Mike

Damon Robinson
29-10-2010, 09:12 AM
I started to laugh at that Jeremy, then realised my ebay/paypal is in the wife's name too :oops:


thanks for all the responses in this thread, it's been very help and educational.

Cheers

Damon

simon coates
29-10-2010, 09:17 AM
I've been using one of the Kipor 1KV generators this year and I have to say I am really impressed. It provides sufficient power to run a 27" iMac, 2 external screens, 9180 & 3800 printers, till and credit card machine without any problem.

A word of warning though: a little bird told me just this week that it is bad idea to fill them with diesel...... :shock: :-o :shock:

Simon

Jeremy Nako
29-10-2010, 09:23 AM
Last year we looked at covering a Kennel Club event.

We were told that the photographer who had covered the event for the previous 3 years couldn't meet the new requirements for exhibitors / trade stands, hence the vacancy.

The requirements were for an LPG based 'suitcase' generator. Open engine generators were not permitted.

This may have been a directive of the location / site, so it obviously doesn't apply everywhere, and it's the first time that I've come across a requirement for a suitcase / enclosed generator, but I think it does show the way that these things are going.

If you're buying new then be aware of the direction that H&S is being taken.

ian griffiths
29-10-2010, 10:52 AM
Mike,

As a group we have 25 or so of these generators in use some for as long as I've had mine.

NEVER in all that time has anyone had or needed a ups or invertor, I can't guess at how many thousands of events we are talking and at no time has there been any damage, even whan they have run out of fuel.

Spec sheets and theories are great, but they can never beat time tested experience!

Mike Weeks
29-10-2010, 11:49 AM
Ian,

as I said I have used similar myself without issue but that does not mean that I can do a hand on heart recommendation because I understand the potential technical issues.

Mike

petergettins
11-11-2010, 04:46 PM
Does anyone know of anywhere within the M25 which acutally sells these suitcase type generators? Machine Mart only have the Hondas which are out of my price range. They do have the 1KW Clarke one, but as Mike says that may not be powerful enough, but they're out of stock on the 2KW. I'm also looking at the Kipor ones. there are several web site selling them, but I'm not around for it to be delivered in the next couple of days, so need to go & buy one.
thanks
Pete

simon coates
11-11-2010, 04:57 PM
Does anyone know of anywhere within the M25 which acutally sells these suitcase type generators?

Do you have a Costco nearby? They sell the Honda suitcase gennies (at least the one in Coventry does.) You need to be a member to get in, or to go with a member.

Simon

brin edwards
11-11-2010, 05:08 PM
Pete

I know it's outside the M25. these guys are the nearest that I know of

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-KIPOR-P ... 2805wt_982 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-KIPOR-Petrol-Generator-IG-2600-SILENT-MODEL-/120601225715?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Tools_Generators _ET&hash=item1c1464a9f3#ht_2805wt_982)

If it's a one off, ring me and I may be able to help.

petergettins
11-11-2010, 05:13 PM
Does anyone know of anywhere within the M25 which acutally sells these suitcase type generators?

Do you have a Costco nearby? They sell the Honda suitcase gennies (at least the one in Coventry does.) You need to be a member to get in, or to go with a member.

Simon

Thanks Simon,
there's one in Thurrock apparently, so not far away. Tbh I can get the Honda ones at Machine Mart, as they're in stock, & there's one just near me, but I'm hoping to get hold of one of the cheaper alternatives & nowhere seems to have an actual outlet to get them from. I could risk getting one delivered, but if it doesn't come in time, I'm a bit knackered. I could settle for the 1KW clarke one as they're in stock at Machine Mart, but I'm a bit unsure as to whether it'd be enough power.
Thanks for the heads up
Cheers
Pete

simon coates
11-11-2010, 05:20 PM
I could settle for the 1KW clarke one as they're in stock at Machine Mart, but I'm a bit unsure as to whether it'd be enough power.
Thanks for the heads up
Cheers
Pete

I guess it depends on what you plan to run from the generator. I use a Kipor 1kva and drive a 27" iMac, second screen, nComputing thin client, Mitsi 9810 & 3800, till & credit card machine. I can print simultaneously on both printers without a problem. Sure, the generator throttles up during the print, but that's to be expected.

Simon

petergettins
11-11-2010, 05:27 PM
Pete

I know it's outside the M25. these guys are the nearest that I know of

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-KIPOR-P ... 2805wt_982 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-KIPOR-Petrol-Generator-IG-2600-SILENT-MODEL-/120601225715?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Tools_Generators _ET&hash=item1c1464a9f3#ht_2805wt_982)" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it's a one off, ring me and I may be able to help.

Hi Brin,
thanks for this. They were one of the ones I found when I was looking, so do they actually have a store where you can collect from? If so that'd be good.
Thanks very much for the offer to help as well. I'm not sure yet as to whether it's just a one off, I could be booked to do 3 events, but only 1 so far is definite & I'm thinking that it'd be worth getting one for the future.
Thanks
Pete

petergettins
11-11-2010, 05:30 PM
I could settle for the 1KW clarke one as they're in stock at Machine Mart, but I'm a bit unsure as to whether it'd be enough power.
Thanks for the heads up
Cheers
Pete

I guess it depends on what you plan to run from the generator. I use a Kipor 1kva and drive a 27" iMac, second screen, nComputing thin client, Mitsi 9810 & 3800, till & credit card machine. I can print simultaneously on both printers without a problem. Sure, the generator throttles up during the print, but that's to be expected.

Simon

Hi Simon,
thanks. Currently I plan to run my Dell Latitude laptop, 2nd screen & Mitsi 9800 printer. So judging from your set up the 1Kw would be fine. Maybe I just go for that one.
thanks again for your help
Cheers
Pete

simon coates
11-11-2010, 06:13 PM
Currently I plan to run my Dell Latitude laptop, 2nd screen & Mitsi 9800 printer. So judging from your set up the 1Kw would be fine. Maybe I just go for that one.


You should be fine, especially since you are using a laptop. I should have mentioned that I've added a UPS into the equation. It keeps the Mac up and running should the genny die.

Simon

Mike Weeks
11-11-2010, 06:15 PM
For the minimal increase in cost the 2KW is a far better choice as running at lower load will increase life and will allow for equipmwnt expansion in the future.

Mike

Alan Warner
11-11-2010, 07:07 PM
Mike never has a truer word been typed

Al'

petergettins
11-11-2010, 08:14 PM
For the minimal increase in cost the 2KW is a far better choice as running at lower load will increase life and will allow for equipmwnt expansion in the future.

Mike

You're right Mike, it's just getting the right one at a price I can afford. I've now seen this one

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/51878/Pow ... -Generator (http://www.screwfix.com/prods/51878/Power-Tools/Generators/SDMO-iNEO2000-1850W-Inverter-Generator)

& Screwfix have a branch right near me in Leyton, so fingers crossed they've got one.

Pete

ian griffiths
12-11-2010, 09:21 AM
Pete,

This is the model that most of my guys use. It's a 2.7KvA

http://www.stephill-generators.co.uk/products/3-se2700

We have been using them as Petrol generators for 10+ years and LPG for 3 years, never had any issue whatsoever. They get an annual service that costs about £20 if you do it yourself.

So far this year mine has run for about 400 hours powering up to 6 sales stations, server, 6 monitors etc.

Costs to us are £300 for petrol or £500 for LPG conversion. The LPG conversion pays for it's self very quickly Vs. Petrol and is accepted everywhere we go, as has been discussed many times the list of places not allowing petrol generators is growing all the time.

Stuart Morley
13-11-2010, 06:23 AM
You should be fine, especially since you are using a laptop. I should have mentioned that I've added a UPS into the equation. It keeps the Mac up and running should the genny die.

Simon

Essential if you need to refill your genny during the day otherwise you will have to shut everything down while you refill.

It goes without saying that you should NEVER refill whilst the genny is running. It also offers you extra protection (get the correct UPS)

Stu

www.systeminsight.co.uk (http://www.systeminsight.co.uk)

petergettins
13-11-2010, 04:03 PM
Pete

I know it's outside the M25. these guys are the nearest that I know of

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-KIPOR-P ... 2805wt_982 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-KIPOR-Petrol-Generator-IG-2600-SILENT-MODEL-/120601225715?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Tools_Generators _ET&hash=item1c1464a9f3#ht_2805wt_982)" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it's a one off, ring me and I may be able to help.

Thanks for the help everyone

Good news & bad news.

I bought this one, albeit the IG2000 model, but it has european plug sockets not UK. Looks like I'll have to use an adapter which doesn't sound great.

Pete

petergettins
13-11-2010, 05:14 PM
I'll get my coat!

Just spoken to Simon who kindly rang me back & told me it's normal to have these 16amp outputs on generators & that I should be able to get an adapter quite easily,

they've got these ones in Machine Mart

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... p-fly-lead (http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/16-13-amp-fly-lead)

Thanks again, this has been a big learning curve for me & the eps forum has been a great help indeed

Cheers

Pete