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Amanda Wigmore
29-05-2010, 01:59 PM
I'm currently moving from a ground floof flat into a 1st floor apartment. lovely though my new place is, it has given me a rather large problem. I currently use a HI-Ti 710 printer which I am very happy with. However, it is very heavy and the stairs may well become a problem for me.
I'm thinking of changing printers. (I hesitate saying upgrade as I'm more than happy with the quaility of the current printer and it's prints).
So, question is, what printer could I get that's durable, gives excellent prints but is light to carry. Oh being able to leave paper and ink roll in when transporting would be a bonus too. (It's the only drawback with the Hi-Fi).

x

Alan Warner
29-05-2010, 02:39 PM
I've recently changed from Mitsubishi Printers to DNP for Health reasons,

a loaded DNP40 on a case weighs in at 22kg in a lightweight flight case, around 5-6kg lighter than equivalent Mitsubishi ex case, 22kg is still a weight though !

a local mate of mine who cruises the hotel scene uses a laptop & an old HiTi 640ps to great affect, regularly turns over 500 a night,

Its a problem that you will have to deal with with some thought & maybe re tailor you work to suit, or find a storage facility you can trust, or just rick it and leave the kit in the car im not recommending this though.... ;-)

Al'

Bryan Osborne
29-05-2010, 02:42 PM
Alan

You really must eat more greens!

Alan Warner
29-05-2010, 02:48 PM
:mrgreen:

Al'

Stuart Morley
29-05-2010, 06:32 PM
Amanda,

The HiTi P510S which is a roll fed 6x4, 7x5, 8x6 and 9x6 printer weighs in at 13.6kg and so is much lighter than the P710L you have.

This also has a in built screen and card slots in case you want to use it stand alone (like the 730PS printers). It even has an inbuilt templating facility so you can still use templating with something like picassa.

Might be an option for you.

Stu

www.systeminsight.co.uk (http://www.systeminsight.co.uk)

Alan Warner
29-05-2010, 06:41 PM
Add to Stuarts suggestion the older Sony Snaplab, max print size is 7x5 built in screen/software & plenty of decent ones float around secondhand & at sensible money,

Not as fast as the cracking HiTi mentioned we used as back up to when we shot on film, and a local rival still uses a couple of them as his main printers...

Al'

john christopher
29-05-2010, 11:11 PM
Manda

You need to find a secure ground floor storage facility because trust me, one night, late in the morning, when you're tired as hell, you're going to have a accident. Changing your printer to something marginally lighter isn't going to make any difference when you and whatever your holding comes tumbling down those stairs.

Bill Allon_Camera Angles
30-05-2010, 08:12 AM
What about a stair climbing trolley like these http://www.trolley-selector.co.uk/stair-climbing-trucks-c-2You can even get electric ones of you search for them

john christopher
30-05-2010, 02:39 PM
What a excellent idea, Bill and a sound investment if (like Manda) you happen to live in a 1st floor flat. Loading and unloading for me is the most dangerous part of the job. Any aid or device that helps me to lessen the risk is worth considering.

Scott Kirk-Matthewson
30-05-2010, 03:53 PM
John, surely lifting stuff is no challenge for you?
On your idea of storage though, I have secure storage for my stuff (wife got fed up wth no spare room for guests!)
Was gleaming until I got a last minute job a few weeks back, thankfully I had most of my kit with me as I had done a job a few days before- I went down to get more mounts & bags only to find myself locked out- if my kit had all been inside I would have been goosed!

john christopher
30-05-2010, 11:28 PM
Scott

Funny ain't so funny, when your back goes pop! The last time this happened to me, I was loading some mounts into my car at Middlewall. Just mounts! I was laid up for four weeks and worse still, Steve and Ricky saw a black/fat man cry.

The sad fact remains, that back ache is a serious problem amongst us event photographers and is something that must be addressed. We carry too much kit.

Scott Kirk-Matthewson
31-05-2010, 06:08 AM
Ah fair one john, never thought about it like that!

Alan Warner
31-05-2010, 07:43 AM
The sad fact remains, that back ache is a serious problem amongst us event photographers and is something that must be addressed. We carry too much kit.

too right John...

Alan

john christopher
31-05-2010, 05:45 PM
Alan

It amazes me still how many event photographers have yet to invest in a industrial strength folding hand cart trolley for the safe movement of their equipment. All the fancy gadgets in the world will not amounts to a hill of beans when you're flat on your back in bed in agony. So much worse when you're unable and incapable of making money. Ouch!

Andy Starkey
31-05-2010, 08:16 PM
Amanda,

also just one thought. In over 2 years of running a p710l, I always leave the media in (despite some very knowledgeable people suggesting otherwise. I have only every have 1 issue, which was resolve with a quick slice of the paper and adjustment of the ribbon, which probably cost me 2-3 prints.

Regards

Andy

Alan Warner
31-05-2010, 08:18 PM
I have a Maplins 30 two wheel barrow & a four wheel ebay special that cost me 37

The four wheeled one hold's two 9800's in flight case at a time, (37kg each)

don't use all the while only when location dictates the need as there are normally two of us,

most of the time We just use hotel porters trolley if available,

Al'

Stuart Morley
01-06-2010, 06:46 AM
Alan

It amazes me still how many event photographers have yet to invest in a industrial strength folding hand cart trolley for the safe movement of their equipment. All the fancy gadgets in the world will not amounts to a hill of beans when you're flat on your back in bed in agony. So much worse when you're unable and incapable of making money. Ouch!

How true.......

Stu

www.systeminsight.co.uk (http://www.systeminsight.co.uk)

Alan Warner
01-06-2010, 07:56 AM
:idea: if only I could invent a helium lifting device :idea:

Alternative Amanda is a Stanner stair lift :!:

Al'

Mike Weeks
01-06-2010, 08:53 AM
The HiTi P510S ....... also has a in built screen and card slots in case you want to use it stand alone (like the 730PS printers). It even has an inbuilt templating facility so you can still use templating with something like picassa.

Hiti have produced a couple of printers which I feel are copying the style and functionality of the Sony Snap Lab but having seen the reaction of using a 32" television to sell to customers I question the benefit of the 3.6" screen whereas the 10.2" screen of the HiTi P510K or the DNP DSA1 (remarkably similar) may actually provide some benefit (and less eye strain to the operator). Having looked at all 3 of these machines I would still want to use external monitors and computers so for me personally I see little benefit in their built in software and monitors - others may think differently.

Are we paying something extra for machines that are designed for a retail environment as opposed to being designed for event photographers, although as event photography is such a small aspect of all the manufacturers outputs we are really in a situation that all machines are designed for retail and we are adapting their use to suit us.

Mike

Alan Warner
01-06-2010, 09:04 AM
The excellent Sony Snaplab CR10L gives us the opportunity to cover smaller jobs without the need for loads of kit.

OK so max size is limited to 7x5max but is acceptable & still returns 7.50-10 per print

as an upgrade we sometimes add a laptop & Darkroom Pro if required,

Al'

Mark Amies
01-06-2010, 09:25 AM
There is another point to make about 'all in one' solutions, as good a s they are- and taht is that they are nowhere near as flexible as having a printer with a laptop,in terms of software solutions, etc. You are pretty much tied to what the manufacturer gives you. Now in most cases taht will be fine, as Stuart will tell you, but there are those that may demand a little more.

Alan Warner
01-06-2010, 09:42 AM
Hi Mark,

Snaplab CR10L integrates with ED Darkroom 100% via USB2 when used as stand alone printer !

Al'

Mark Amies
01-06-2010, 09:45 AM
Well blow me!! I didn't know that - I stand corrected, admonished and quite frankly daft at the answer. Thank you Mr W!

Goes away in corner with white conical hat ..................... :oops:

Stuart Morley
01-06-2010, 11:25 AM
There is another point to make about 'all in one' solutions, as good a s they are- and taht is that they are nowhere near as flexible as having a printer with a laptop,in terms of software solutions, etc. You are pretty much tied to what the manufacturer gives you. Now in most cases taht will be fine, as Stuart will tell you, but there are those that may demand a little more.

Both type of solutions have their merits. I like the Click as its all in one solution that does most things very well. Does it do everything - of course not, but it does 95% and that's good enough for most people.

It looks good, anyone can use it. My Mrs had never used one until yesterday and after 15 minutes she's ready to come out with us on a big job on Friday. even her friends who visited last week where using it after 5 minutes.

For me, and for a lot of my customers the Click is a great solution you don't need to be a techie to use it (and a lot of photographers and their assistants aren't).

It also looks very good, these days it's often about image and the Click does look better than a laptop in my opinion, especially as everyone has a laptop these days.

To quote from a recent customers email..."Second, at the dinner function on Saturday night, the Click Lite equipment was the talk of the function, apparently more so than the football they were watching"

As for being tied into Mitsubishi then this is no different than being tied in to any other manufacturer and they have a good range of equipment at a decent price. Media is easily available and service is very good.

At the end of day it's what we have been using oursleves for many years and I wouldn't use anything else....does it suit everyone...of course not..

Each to there own...

Stu

http://www.systeminsight.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Alan Warner
01-06-2010, 12:20 PM
For me, and for a lot of my customers the Click is a great solution you don't need to be a techie to use it (and a lot of photographers and their assistants aren't).

I agree the real strength of the click system is its simplicity.

Alan

Mark Amies
01-06-2010, 12:23 PM
Fair enough, but the downside, with regard to Amanada's original posting is that it is not exactely light, and you have suddenly introduced two bulky and heavy elements.

Worth considering where we started the thread?

Alan Warner
01-06-2010, 12:27 PM
Yep Mark !

That's one thing that the "Click" is not & that is LIGHT in weight.

Al'

john christopher
01-06-2010, 02:34 PM
Some lowlife MF stole my Ebay Four wheel combo step ladder/hand cart trolley during a big job at The Grovenor House last year and I didn't have the heart to replace it, like for like. Instead I brought another fold flat two wheeled hand cart trolley from PM and watch it like a hawk.

The Click system is easy to use not because of it's hardware but because of it's software. Software can be replicated. Better still software isn't, as it's name suggest, going to break your back in two on your way up a flight of stairs.

Jeremy Nako
01-06-2010, 02:49 PM
For Sale

One Four wheel combo step ladder/hand cart Trolley.

Cash taken for quick sale - no questions asked. ;-)

Mark Amies
01-06-2010, 02:59 PM
You got some oven gloves for those Jeremy? :?

Paul Rogers
01-06-2010, 03:20 PM
It also looks very good, these days it's often about image and the Click does look better than a laptop in my opinion, especially as everyone has a laptop these days.



There are laptops systems and laptop systems. I would say a MacBook Pro with a 24" LED Apple cinema screen for viewing, along with an iPad as a portable roving display screen takes some beating for image. :D

Alan Warner
01-06-2010, 03:23 PM
There are laptops systems and laptop systems. I would say a MacBook Pro with a 24" LED Apple cinema screen for viewing, along with an iPad as a portable roving display screen takes some beating for image. :D

So Sexy :D

Al'

Stuart Morley
01-06-2010, 03:53 PM
It also looks very good, these days it's often about image and the Click does look better than a laptop in my opinion, especially as everyone has a laptop these days.



There are laptops systems and laptop systems. I would say a MacBook Pro with a 24" LED Apple cinema screen for viewing, along with an iPad as a portable roving display screen takes some beating for image. :D

Yes I would agree. I love the Mac Laptop and the Apple Screens - pure quality!

Stu

www.systeminsight.co.uk (http://www.systeminsight.co.uk)

Mark Amies
01-06-2010, 03:57 PM
I'm currently moving from a ground floof flat into a 1st floor apartment. lovely though my new place is, it has given me a rather large problem. I currently use a HI-Ti 710 printer which I am very happy with. However, it is very heavy and the stairs may well become a problem for me.
I'm thinking of changing printers. (I hesitate saying upgrade as I'm more than happy with the quaility of the current printer and it's prints).
So, question is, what printer could I get that's durable, gives excellent prints but is light to carry. Oh being able to leave paper and ink roll in when transporting would be a bonus too. (It's the only drawback with the Hi-Fi).

x

I thought it worth going back here to see the original posting from Amanda, becuase we have gone way off track. Amanda was asking about a lighter printer, so really the chat about the Click is not much use is it? :?

Stuart Morley
01-06-2010, 04:08 PM
Fair enough, but the downside, with regard to Amanada's original posting is that it is not exactely light, and you have suddenly introduced two bulky and heavy elements.

Worth considering where we started the thread?

Mark,

I was replying to your post about all in one systems.

Where is the yawn smiley when you need it? :rofl:

On a more serious and on-topic note, You are correct regarding weight, the Click System is up there with the other stuff. The lightest bits of kit seem to be the DNP and the P510 Series

Stu

http://www.systeminsight.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mark Amies
01-06-2010, 04:16 PM
http://www.unwiredview.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/sleping-smiley.jpg

Stuart Morley
01-06-2010, 04:25 PM
The HiTi P510S ....... also has a in built screen and card slots in case you want to use it stand alone (like the 730PS printers). It even has an inbuilt templating facility so you can still use templating with something like picassa.

Hiti have produced a couple of printers which I feel are copying the style and functionality of the Sony Snap Lab but having seen the reaction of using a 32" television to sell to customers I question the benefit of the 3.6" screen whereas the 10.2" screen of the HiTi P510K or the DNP DSA1 (remarkably similar) may actually provide some benefit (and less eye strain to the operator). Having looked at all 3 of these machines I would still want to use external monitors and computers so for me personally I see little benefit in their built in software and monitors - others may think differently.

Are we paying something extra for machines that are designed for a retail environment as opposed to being designed for event photographers, although as event photography is such a small aspect of all the manufacturers outputs we are really in a situation that all machines are designed for retail and we are adapting their use to suit us.

Mike

Mike,

The HiTi printers are in a similair style to the Sony in the same way as the DNP80 is in the same styles as a CP3800DW or many other products but I don't see the relevancy to be honest

The P510K is a retail solution which is used by a few event photograohers (against our recomendation) but will still enable you to print on the night and allows someone who needs a retail solution and an event one to have both in one machine. The P510K will operate as a standard printer and can be used as such.

The screen on the P510S Series is never meant to compete with a 32inch screen, but when you can get a printer for little more that a standard roll fed one with all these extra features then it makes sense. Although the small screen isn't an ideal event solution, it does give you a backup if you laptop fails at an event and will still allow you to print and make money.

The fact that we sell twice as many P510's as anything else is testement to what event photographers think of the HiTi

The P510 is an ideal starting point and can be integrated into a larger systems like the one you employ. Most people don't start with multiple screens but grow into it over time if there business requires it. The P510s and P510K are never meant to replace this.

Stu

http://www.systeminsight.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mark Amies
01-06-2010, 04:31 PM
Goodness me this thread is really snaking about isn't it?

I was attempting to get it back on track, but we are off the rails again.

Bill Allon_Camera Angles
01-06-2010, 05:01 PM
Isn't about time we heard from the authour of this thread?

Amanda Wigmore
01-06-2010, 06:25 PM
Isn't about time we heard from the authour of this thread?
I was waiting until someone actually suggested a printer :?
Mind you, I'm thinking the Stanna Stairlift may be the answer. I'm not getting any younger :D
x

Kris Hunt
01-06-2010, 07:30 PM
Offer digital files only?

Few sheets of paper weighs less than a printer.

5 low res, 10 full res, take money on the night, email them the next day.

:)

Mark Amies
02-06-2010, 08:07 AM
[quote="Bill Allon_Camera Angles":2oeephrh]Isn't about time we heard from the authour of this thread?
I was waiting until someone actually suggested a printer :?
Mind you, I'm thinking the Stanna Stairlift may be the answer. I'm not getting any younger :D
x[/quote:2oeephrh]

So far we have had the DNP DS40, the HiTi 510 ( S and K versions)- those too work on the level of weight , 14KG and 13.5KG respectively. The pertient req was for weight saving , so those too hit the spot.

Graham Taylor
02-06-2010, 08:32 AM
[quote="Amanda Wigmore":2syh3a8j][quote="Bill Allon_Camera Angles":2syh3a8j]Isn't about time we heard from the authour of this thread?
I was waiting until someone actually suggested a printer :?
Mind you, I'm thinking the Stanna Stairlift may be the answer. I'm not getting any younger :D
x[/quote:2syh3a8j]

So far we have had the DNP DS40, the HiTi 510 ( S and K versions)- those too work on the level of weight , 14KG and 13.5KG respectively. The pertient req was for weight saving , so those too hit the spot.[/quote:2syh3a8j]

Perhaps Photomart could supply a lightweight strut mount just to help JC's back problem?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Amanda Wigmore
02-06-2010, 08:52 AM
[quote="Amanda Wigmore":1tm8inoj][quote="Bill Allon_Camera Angles":1tm8inoj]Isn't about time we heard from the authour of this thread?
I was waiting until someone actually suggested a printer :?
Mind you, I'm thinking the Stanna Stairlift may be the answer. I'm not getting any younger :D
x[/quote:1tm8inoj]

So far we have had the DNP DS40, the HiTi 510 ( S and K versions)- those too work on the level of weight , 14KG and 13.5KG respectively. The pertient req was for weight saving , so those too hit the spot.[/quote:1tm8inoj]

Sorry, they got lost in amongst all the other stuff :D
So any arguments for or against the DNP DS40 and the HiTi 510?? How do they compare, What's the print quality like and can you leave paper in??

Thanks to everyone for the useful comments so far. Oh, priced the Stairlift up.... I could retire if I had that sort of money. :lol:
x

Graham Taylor
02-06-2010, 09:12 AM
Personally with the weights almost identical I'd look at the cost per print as a deciding factor. I've never owned a HiTi but have just switched from Mits to DNP.

Mike Weeks
02-06-2010, 09:14 AM
Amanda,

Comparing the DNP DS40 to the best features of some of the other 9"x6" printers that I have had,

Speed - approximately the same
Image quality - better than earlier printers
Media costs - Lower
Noise - Very much Reduced
Weight - Minimum of 6Kg lighter
Construction - Case seems similar to previous printers.
Leave paper in? The wheels fitted to the paper are of such size I can not see how the media can move during transit and the ribbon is loaded into its own compartment and again it is difficult to see how it would move- I have been transporting mine with media in for the last year with no problems remember that that is my experience and not the manufacturers recommendation.

I have not compared the image quality from the HiTi but I have seen the machine in use and there appears to be a lot more of the casing made out of plastic, it is noisier than the DNP (but quieter than many other 9"x6" printers) and specs give them similar weight and speed. I cant comment about transporting with media in and you should be able to find out the media costs. Of most benefit would be an actual user of these to give you comments.

I compare them purely as printers because the additional functionality is of no use to me.

I have demoed the DNP printers on behalf of Photomart and DNP.

Mike

Mark Amies
02-06-2010, 09:16 AM
DNP DS40 - compact design,light weight, internal print path, good price per print (24p plus vat per 6x9"), all drivers catered for , including Windows 7 and all Mac drivers, fast print time ( 16 seconds on 6x9).

HiTi510 ( S & K) - all in one solution, does not need computer, has card slots, and touch screen ( better on the K version), easy to use, low weight ( 13.5Kg).

I don't do negative, so I will leave the against to someone else.

Mike Weeks
02-06-2010, 09:20 AM
DNP DS40 - compact design,light weight, internal print path

Forgot about the Internal print path. I have only had issues with dust with sheet fed machines but have often worried that when doing outdoor events there is always the chance that as the media is drawn back into the machine for the next layer of colour it could also draw dust back in.

Mike

Mark Amies
02-06-2010, 09:48 AM
The other wonderful thing about an internal print path, is that it stops the problem ( that has happened) , of your customers trying to pulll the print from the machine before it has finished- as in "Ooo, look, there it is !!".

simon coates
02-06-2010, 10:12 AM
The other wonderful thing about an internal print path, is that it stops the problem ( that has happened) , of your customers trying to pulll the print from the machine before it has finished- as in "Ooo, look, there it is !!".

I have a guard dog to stop that happening. :lol:


Simon

Amanda Wigmore
06-06-2010, 02:30 PM
Thanks to everyone who has offered advice, both here and privately.
It would appear that lots of you have positive things to say about the DNP and not many people think that there'd be much advantage in the HiTi apart from maybe the price...
Moving in next weekend so once I'm in, I'll sort out purchasing...
Now I have to decide if i keep the 710 as a back up, or sell it......
x

Scott Kirk-Matthewson
06-06-2010, 06:58 PM
Amanda,
would you like a play with a DS40?

I'm sure we can arrange something?

Amanda Wigmore
30-06-2010, 02:17 PM
Finally bought the DNP-DS40. I'm really pleased with it's size and weight but what on earth is the photo catcher all about?? It must be designed for a 6x4!!! I thought, before I put the paper in, that the print must come out sideways. However, the 9x6 comes out long ways and lands sort of half rolled. I think I'll be getting Col to make a better one for me.
Anyway, compared to the HIti 710 which I'm keeping as a spare, the printer compares well but I'm not sure it's better quality overall just smaller and lighter. Loading the 710 is far easier as you can see the paper run and feed it through very easily. On the DNP it's a little more fiddly.
If size and weight are not a problem for you, then you could save a bit of money and go with the 710.

That said, I'm not putting down the DNP at all, it certainly better for my back than the Hiti. Thanks to Mark for help, advice, a good deal and quick service.
x

Mark Amies
30-06-2010, 02:56 PM
Amanda

Yes the print catcher tray is rather dinky. This is down to DNP perhaps not being fully aware of the new requirements.

Please do send me any comments by email and I will gladly send them onto my contact at DNP.

Trudy Trafford
03-07-2010, 05:18 AM
Finally bought the DNP-DS40. I'm really pleased with it's size and weight but what on earth is the photo catcher all about?? It must be designed for a 6x4!!! I thought, before I put the paper in, that the print must come out sideways. However, the 9x6 comes out long ways and lands sort of half rolled. I think I'll be getting Col to make a better one for me.


You should see the one you get with the DNP-DS80, absolute quality!!! :rofl: :rofl:

Mark Amies
05-07-2010, 09:58 AM
As I think I said, anyone with the machines who would like to see sopmething better, ot have some ideas on the perfect catcher, please drop me an email.

Natalie-Briggs
05-07-2010, 07:27 PM
rather late now but wanted to say that i live on a 5th floor flat with no lift and i use a DS40 ;-) Not exactly light, but a darn sight lighter than the others !

Amanda Wigmore
06-07-2010, 08:10 AM
rather late now but wanted to say that i live on a 5th floor flat with no lift and i use a DS40 ;-) Not exactly light, but a darn sight lighter than the others !

You must be very fit :D
x

Trudy Trafford
06-07-2010, 10:17 AM
As I think I said, anyone with the machines who would like to see sopmething better, ot have some ideas on the perfect catcher, please drop me an email.

Mark,

Seriously I think the way the catcher that comes with the DS40 fits to the printer is fine, but it needs to stretch out with sides so that it can stack prints flat on top of each other like an up turned box lid. Ideally the underside of the catcher should be no lower than the bottom of the printer so it can stand on a flat surface like a table and doesn't have to over hang and risk getting knocked off and damaged.

If the catcher was big enough to hold the maximum print size for these printers i.e. 12x8 it could be used for either the DS40 or DS80 rather than having two versions. I'm sure most owners of these printers would welcome such an accessory. We certainly would!!!

:diff: