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William Scott
25-04-2010, 03:24 PM
Hi folks

I need to purchase a printer and was looking at the Mitsubishi Click Lite system, however, when checking some stuff out at Photomart yesterday, I was shown the DS 40 and 80 printers. They were much less bulky and heavy so appealed.

I have two main concerns though.

1. I was shown the processing software on a touch screen but I am more likely to go down the route of using a laptop rather than the touch screen option. Is this wise? Also, if I do use a laptop, I'm not sure what software I would be able to use. It needs to be reliable, fast and straightforward so I can get assistance from a variety of people.

I was initially going to us Picasa but have read there are problems with this software and printer combination. Bummer! I use a mac and was considering looking into either Lightroom or Aperture. Any suggestions or has anyone found a workaround for the Picasa problems?

2. Are the print profiles that come with this printer adequate for the job or would I need to get a custom profile made?

Thank you very much and sorry if these are silly questions. Just starting out here.

William

Graham Taylor
25-04-2010, 04:04 PM
DNP printer are used by many on here and are said to be very good. Regarding profiles many use a custom one from Pure Profiles. These cost about 15 and proberbly cost effective if trying to create your own.

Viewing software varies depending on your setup. Many use vewing stations. These can be laptops or monitors run by thinclients hooked upto your main computer via a network (can be wired or wireless). Software ranges from free to the more bespoke commercial packages. See Graham Russell's Event Photo Pro (commercial)and Mike Weeks Event View (Free), both are EPS members.

For printing again its really down to personal choice. Again this ranges from Express Darkroom, Photoshop, Lightroom to Picassa to name a few. Its really worth spending some time just reading through the posts and if anything grabs your attention that may suit your workflow.

Happy reading :lol:

Scott Kirk-Matthewson
25-04-2010, 04:16 PM
Hi William, welcome

I was in the same boat as you back in January.

I purchased a DNP DS40, got it home, eagerly unpacked it, put the drivers on etc and picked a favourite image to print, (using picassa) it came out with white pinstripes all over it :cry:

OK, tried a print in LR- perfect, however I didnt want to use lightroom.
Short term I used parallels with picassa 3, fine.

I then (after working with mike for the day) decided I wanted viewing stations.
Now this is where the fun starts.
I couldnt get event photo pro to work using parallels or vmware, might just have been me.

In the end I bit the bullet and after much help from the forum picked a 2nd hand dell to use as my server/ print station.

I tried it in anger last weekend with the macbook (& monitor) as the viewing station, worked brilliantly.

This is my experience so far, the only problem I have had with the printer was the pinstriping, however it is a known issue.
I too used photomart, after seeing the dnp's in action in London.
nice small footprint, not too heavy, and you can stack them both.

kevmiller
25-04-2010, 04:31 PM
Hi William
I've got the DS40 'package' from Photomart that I think you're referring to. I find the 'all in one' intouch screen marvellous. The software is pretty foolproof, my son (no surprises) and my wife can operate it. However, it doesn't seem ideal if you are going to go down the route of viewing stations.The Picture Maker software isn't collapsable to the taskbar so accessing something like Event View means closing down the program - not an ideal solution. Lightroom, which I am now using, does allow this facility so alls well.
I find the printer brilliant, but haven't used any others to compare. I find the standard profile fine, but as in all things if you wish to have a bespoke profile then you can.
Re the laptop approach, as Mr. Weeks would say - they're v. expensive to repair and a tad on the fragile side. However, the choice is yours :-)

Graham Russell
25-04-2010, 04:39 PM
Just one additional comment about Event Photo Pro - not only does it handle all image importing and viewing screen operations, it also handles printing to multiple printers. Printers can be directly attached to the host machine, connected to other machines on the network, or can be handle via external systems such as Mitsi Click and Digital Express etc. It is a complete camera to printer workflow.

I'm just finishing up a major improvement to the shopping basket capability, following a couple of enhancement requests from users.

For more details please take a look at:
http://www.eventphotopro.info

Graham

Stuart Morley
25-04-2010, 05:24 PM
Hi William

We use (and sell) the Click System which in my opinion is a superb system. It allows almost anyone with very little experience to produce quality results very quickly.

The other advantage is that it looks good and these days we often need something else. Lots of people have a laptop (nothing wrong with that of course) but the click does stand out.

As for the DNP DS40 I don't have any experience with them (we don't sell them) but I am suprised that you have an issue with something as simple as picassa. I don't know of any other printers that won't work with picassa (which is good and free btw) maybe a reinstall of picassa or is this a known problem with the DS40?

We are specialists with the Click and have sold many units not only that but the manufacturer (Mitsubishi) have there Uk office in Hatfield

So my choices would be click first, then laptop with CP9550DW or HiTi P510s. but I my first requirement wouldn't be weight.

Also check media availability (no of suppliers) that maybe important in the future.

Lightroom or Aperture (A personal favorite) wouldn't be my first choice, you need wow factor and speed so Click or Picassa (no training issues either)

Hope that helps

Stu

http://www.systeminsight.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

p.s. We can do an online demo of the click if you are interested.

Alan Warner
25-04-2010, 05:31 PM
I can confirm that both DNP variants work very well with Express Digital Darkroom...

Alan

William Scott
25-04-2010, 05:53 PM
Thanks for all the help folks. I am not sure how to proceed. I am not really sure about viewing stations either. Looks like a learning curve and some decisions need to be made here! I certainly can't afford to splash a lot of cash on lots of monitors but would probably be able to use a couple. I will check out the software suggested for this option. I was planning to start of simple and once I had a few under my belt, would build on my approach.

Having read quite a few posts, I was under the impression that the picasa problem wasn't limited to Macs but if I am wrong, then I could be persuaded to use a pc laptop!

Does Event Photo Pro need a live internet connection to run?

I understand the DNP printers can be used with either laptops or even the Click touch screen and so buying this would give me more options later on. The Mitsubishi printers are either one or the other though so don't seem so attractive in that respect.

I will spend a bit of time reading the posts here and try and get some idea of what I need to do next. I am most grateful for your help

William

Alan Warner
25-04-2010, 06:00 PM
I understand the DNP printers can be used with either laptops or even the Click touch screen

DNP printers cannot be used with Click Systems only Red fronted Mitsubishi Printers 3020 & 3800 are compatible with Click system,

However they can be used with any Windows Laptop,

Despite being a ED Darkroom user, for scalability Event Photo Pro is excellent value & flexible...

Alan

William Scott
25-04-2010, 06:01 PM
Just looking at the Express Digital Darkroom package I am assuming I would need the pro version and it is just too much s for me at the moment.

William

William Scott
25-04-2010, 06:05 PM
I understand the DNP printers can be used with either laptops or even the Click touch screen

DNP printers cannot be used with Click Systems only Red fronted Mitsubishi Printers 3020 & 3800 are compatible with Click system,

However they can be used with any Windows Laptop...

Alan


Ah I am mistaken then.

I really just want a printer that will work with my laptop and a reasonably priced software solution for the DNP if possible. As I say, I will need to have a good look at the options available. It would seem that I'm best not to go with the PhotoMart touch screen solution in the meantime in case I later want to get the viewing screen solution mentioned above.

I would be quite happy if only the DNP could perform reliably with Picasa.

William

Graham Russell
25-04-2010, 06:06 PM
William

Event Photo Pro does not need an internet connection to operate.

If customers would like my help setting up the initial system or training this is provided over the internet.

Please drop me a line if you'd like more info or to arrange a 30 day evaluation.

Thanks
Graham

Scott Kirk-Matthewson
25-04-2010, 06:11 PM
The problem disappeared when I used windoze & picassa, so it seems to be a mac + picassa + DNP problem, Paul rogers found the same as did Trudy I believe.

Some people find that 1 manned system is enough at a social event, others use VS's, I think it all boils down to what you want to do event wise.
I will probably use 1 manned station with a VS for casual viewing at social stuff, then go to 2-3 VS's at sports events.

As to cost, mikes system is free, so with that and picassa its a free set up, however grahams event photo pro now has a 'pay as you go' scheme, perfect for those starting out

and as he says he does assist, in my case twice!!

Graham Russell
25-04-2010, 06:15 PM
and as he says he does assist, in my case twice!!

All part of the service Scott :D

Alan Warner
25-04-2010, 06:28 PM
It would seem that I'm best not to go with the PhotoMart touch screen solution in the meantime in case I later want to get the viewing screen solution mentioned above.

I would be quite happy if only the DNP could perform reliably with Picasa.

I wouldn't discount the PM touchscreen as t offers a solution that has its own merits

IMO:
If you already have a suitable laptop, by adding a printer your 3/4 of the way there if you have the extra cash you then can choose to go with either ED Darkroom, Graham's Event Photo Pro, Adobe Lightroom, if not go with Google Picassa & choose different model of printer !


Alan

john wright
26-04-2010, 10:44 AM
Hi William

Without knowing the type of event you intend to shoot and the work-flow you will employ it is very difficult to give any real recommendations with regard to applications and hardware.

Event photography is largely about having a good work-flow for the type and size of event being shot matched to applications and hardware that compliment the work-flow. At this stage I would be investigating work-flow and identifying the key stages of the work-flow as this will quickly exclude some hardware and software solutions.

If you wish to get something together reasonably quickly which will allow you to develop your work-flow and still be a useful investment should you select a ready built system in the future then I would go the Lightroom and DNP40 route. The current version of Lightroom works well across a range of events and work-flows. A new version of Lightroom will be released within the next few months which supports many features useful to event photographers. The current beta of LR is available for download if you want to try it.

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/lightroom3/

I have tested Picassa and I have run it at a live event. My view is that it is not a good choice as a number of features are very inefficient from an operators point of view. LR beats it hands down in every respect apart from cost.

I have used the Click Lite system and also found that quite inefficient for my needs. There are also limitations with regard to hardware supported. I felt it would make a good photo print booth but is not a good general purpose event system. I appreciate that there are many that use the Click Lite system for events and plenty will disagree with my view. However, at this stage do you really want to be tied to a system (any system) which will effectively determine and dictate your work-flow before you have identified the key elements of your work-flow?

I use LightRoom with a dual screen set up and the primary screen is a touch screen. This gives me all the features I require and will print to any printer for which there are drivers for your OS. A relatively cheap but very flexible system.

John

Stuart Morley
26-04-2010, 11:09 AM
For the record...

DNP Printers can be used with a Click System (as can most printers) but NOT with the Native click software. The click is only a Windows PC with a Touch Screen so almost any windows software will run on it if you wanted to...


Click Systems can also be used with multiscreen systems (we have done quite a few now), we have used Graham's Event Photo Pro which is really good.


Stu

www.systeminsight.co.uk (http://www.systeminsight.co.uk)

Mike Weeks
26-04-2010, 11:57 AM
For the record...

DNP Printers can be used with a Click System (as can most printers) but NOT with the Native click software. The click is only a Windows PC with a Touch Screen so almost any windows software will run on it if you wanted to...

Stuart therein lies the issue - this system was not originally designed as a solution for event photographers, it was designed for retail outlets and the use of the red top printers was to tie the purchaser to specific media. Similar examples can be found in many types of industry.

Event Photographers could see the potential and many have succesfully utilised the system - who would want to be using it without the Click system? you would be paying a large sum for waht is essentially a touch screen and a low spec computer with some custom software that is not transportable. If you want to take the systems approach it is a genuine contender, thats where many of its strengths lie.

As to the DNP / Picassa issue this seems only to happen when you use that setup on a MAC. I have not heard of anybody having an issue with any other printing software using a DNP on a MAC, or of people having the issue with Picassa and DNP on Windows.

I would countenance the advice of John Wright and suggest that before anybody buys any system that they consider what sort of events they want to do and to find out what other photographers use. The software needs to be able to be used by the sales staff effectively, you may only have a short of amount of time to explain its use if changing staff.

I have tried as many pieces of software as I can and some have changed since then but what I have done is found that some like express digital have great functionality for event photographers but if it has a weakness it is the image editing tools and others such as Lightroom have great editing tools but it does not have the event workflow of Express digital.

Mike

John_Blythe
12-05-2010, 10:53 AM
I have found this thread very useful. I am in the process of setting up a system and I too lokked at the Click Lite and decided i didn't want to be tied into a all in package. I then managed to pick up a 3M 17" touch screen on ebay for 85. My remaining issue is still what viewing software to use. I was planning to use Picasa to print to my Sony DR150 but now looking at the DNP printers I am thinking of changing to one of those. However, I was planning to run my set up from a mac mini so that now seems like a no go unless the white stripes issue gets sorted or I bit the bullet and get a PC.

So after all that ramble, my question is; is anyone running a printing set-up on a mac via parallels or VM and if so what's the performance impact like? This would be a solution to allow me to run picasa and print to a DNP40 from a mac, but only if it runs at a reasonable pace.

Thanks for any input

John

Mark Amies
12-05-2010, 12:42 PM
John

Do you really need to run with Picassa? I am aware of this problem, and it is a great shame, but it has not stopped a great many people purchasing the DNP machines.

John_Blythe
12-05-2010, 03:13 PM
I'm going to have a look at using lightroom as well, does anyone know if LR3 add anything significant to this type of usage?

John

Mike Weeks
12-05-2010, 03:15 PM
Speak to Richard Chaff & Jean Frooms as they are very keen on using LR3 and have found some beneficial elements.

Mike

Paul Rogers
12-05-2010, 03:37 PM
We HAVE seen the same problem with Picasa on windows machine as well as MAC's. So if you are buying a DNP test it first.

For me Lightroom has it's problems and the really big bug bear with Lightroom is that it keeps jumping to the latest image uploaded and if you are showing guests images 20-25 and image 300 comes in the software jumps to image 300. You then have to trawl your way all the way back to your images only for it to jump again when the next image uploads. I appreciate there is the "last loaded images button" but it's another process to add to an already busy workflow.

We have tried Aperture, Lightroom, Photoshop, iPhoto, Picasa and jAlbum. Our printer assistants all prefer Picasa because of its ease of use. We have never had a problem with it. But we do only use for indoor social events.

These are my opinions, it doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, it's just what works best for us.

Graham Russell
12-05-2010, 04:17 PM
Presenting images to clients is really your shop front. It needs to be slick, professional, scalable for your business and low stress overhead.

I have customers using DNP DS40 printers with Event Photo Pro with no problems at all. I am really baffled with the issues with the applications mentioned here. At least I have a workflow solution that seems just fine with DS40s.

Graham

Paul Rogers
12-05-2010, 04:39 PM
At least I have a workflow solution that seems just fine with DS40s.

Graham

Unless you're using MACs !! :D

Jean Frooms
12-05-2010, 04:51 PM
For me Lightroom has it's problems and the really big bug bear with Lightroom is that it keeps jumping to the latest image uploaded and if you are showing guests images 20-25 and image 300 comes in the software jumps to image 300. You then have to trawl your way all the way back to your images only for it to jump again when the next image uploads. I appreciate there is the "last loaded images button" but it's another process to add to an already busy workflow.



I can remember at one of the first events that we used lightroom absolutely pulling my hair out at the end of the evening for that very reason Paul. At the next event we turned off the auto import and I just imported the latest batch of images when I needed to or had time between customers. Since then we have used lightroom at all our events very happily. I love it...I can crop, straighten, zoom, add fill light, batch colour correct which is very handy in indoor arenas, even quick clones if I have time which really impresses the customers. The new lightroom 3 beta 2 which are currently using make it an absolute doddle to print montages which we are selling like hotcakes at the moment. The beta version is a bit slower than lightroom 2 but we are hopeful that when the release version is available it will be back up to speed.

Yes...we like lightroom :)

Graham Russell
12-05-2010, 05:09 PM
[quote="Graham Russell":f6gu3x6h]At least I have a workflow solution that seems just fine with DS40s.

Graham

Unless you're using MACs !! :D[/quote:f6gu3x6h]

A MAC port is not out the question if I see a large enough potential market.

Trudy Trafford
12-05-2010, 06:19 PM
So after all that ramble, my question is; is anyone running a printing set-up on a mac via parallels or VM and if so what's the performance impact like? This would be a solution to allow me to run picasa and print to a DNP40 from a mac, but only if it runs at a reasonable pace.

Thanks for any input

John

Yes, we have run Express Digital Core v9 in parallels (windows XP sp2) on a MacBookPro using both the DS40 and DS80 with no performance issues. We have not tested it with Picassa, but given it will be using the windows drivers as ED does and not the Mac drivers i don't see why it wouldn't work, but test it first!!!
:puter:

Simon.

Gareth Cooper
28-05-2010, 12:01 PM
I'm interested in getting one of these units too. I don't do a lot of events, but i have 2 booked and one further potential. The size and weight is the most attractive feature here. It seems just as fast as the other competition and the media price looks keen too.
Is it's print quality up to scratch? What's the Hi-quality mode like?

I'm looking to use this at a themed school dance and a black tie charity eventwith a simple hi-key studio set up and this unit to handle the deliverables. Speed isn't the key thing here, as long as it delivers good reliable prints.

Rergards,

Gareth Cooper
GMC Photographics

Mike Weeks
28-05-2010, 12:23 PM
Gareth,

the reality is that if you laid out a number of prints from each manufacturers machine you would be hard pressed to tell from which machine they came from. I have used a number of other printers and am currently using these and we have had no issue with print quality.

One feature that was picked up on by some of the attendees at the Photomart roadshow in Cardiff is how quiet the printer is in comparison to other 9x6 printers - which I am finding to be a bonus in some situations.

I have demoed these on behalf of DNP at Focus & Photomart at their seminars.

Mike

Alan Warner
29-05-2010, 06:27 AM
the reality is that if you laid out a number of prints from each manufacturers machine you would be hard pressed to tell from which machine they came from.

That pretty much sum's it up Mike...

Al'

Stuart Morley
29-05-2010, 06:39 PM
One feature that was picked up on by some of the attendees at the Photomart roadshow in Cardiff is how quiet the printer is in comparison to other 9x6 printers - which I am finding to be a bonus in some situations.

I have demoed these on behalf of DNP at Focus & Photomart at their seminars.

Mike

Good Point Mike,

Some printers can be quite noisy and if this is an issue for you, then the HiTi P510 Series is also very quiet.

Stu

www.systeminsight.co.uk (http://www.systeminsight.co.uk)

Alan Warner
29-05-2010, 06:46 PM
On the down side we have two DS40's side by side and cannot tell which one is printing until it shoots it out onto the floor,

Print catcher is far too small if you want to catch more than 1-9x6 print :!:

Al'

Gareth Cooper
01-06-2010, 08:48 PM
I see that the HiTi P510 is a 300 dpi printer and the DNP is a 600 dpi unit. Is there much difference on the printed page?
I'm a bit surprised how expensive the HiTi unit is compared to the DNP DS 40. What's the reason for the price difference?

Mike Weeks
01-06-2010, 09:05 PM
Gareth,

a number of dye sub printers come with a 600 dpi (or equivalent) High Quality option but for speed most people use the standard mode - like many things it is nice to know you have the option and demonstrates the quality of the equipment.

Mike

john christopher
02-06-2010, 07:49 AM
Sometimes slowing things down (a touch) can be no bad thing, especially while maintaining a steady workflow. Personally, setting my printers at 600dpi, gives me and my staff enough time to place each print in a strut mount. Naked prints piled up in a print catcher just doesn't look right.

Graham Taylor
02-06-2010, 08:29 AM
Both my printers are set to print at 300dpi and suprised to see some printing at 600! I'd be interested to hear what the majority print at.